Elevating Curb Appeal from the Top Down - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Chad Roland with RTM Roofing and Jack Gottesman with IKO. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Megan Ellsworth: Hello, everyone. My name's Megan.

Lauren White: And I'm Lauren.

Megan Ellsworth: And this is the Ask A Roofer podcast back again, and we're here with Jack and Chad. Hi, gentlemen. How are you doing?

Chad Roland: Hello.

Jack Gottesman: Thanks for having us.

Megan Ellsworth: Yes. So Jack, why don't you start us out. You're with IKO. Just give us a little introduction and a little bit about you.

Jack Gottesman: Sure. Yes. I oversee marketing for North America at IKO, but the most fun part of my job is that I also oversee our Roof Pro loyalty program, and my favorite thing to do as a part of running that program is to crisscross the country and meet just the most incredible roofers on the planet. Last week, I had the absolute pleasure of eating at a smokehouse with Chad, and we vibed on a lot of amazing ideas. The first one that we are executing is to sit together on this podcast and rock the world, so here we are.

Megan Ellsworth: Yay. Chad, welcome. Where are you from? Where's this smokehouse that you guys were at?

Chad Roland: It was downtown Nashville on Broadway. It is Jack's Barbecue, but my name's Chad Roland. I'm with RTM Roofing, based out of Nashville, Tennessee.

Megan Ellsworth: Beautiful.

Chad Roland: Didn't know how deep you wanted to go down that rabbit hole.

Megan Ellsworth: No, that's great. That's perfect. So today we're talking about curb appeal. What is curb appeal?

Chad Roland: That's in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

Megan Ellsworth: So true. So true.

Chad Roland: That's the way I look at it, at least. I don't know. Jack, you want to go with that?

Jack Gottesman: Sure. I think curb appeal is in the eye of the beholder and as a manufacturer, it's our responsibility to make sure that we are manufacturing and making roofing materials, especially our shingles. Our performance class shingles, our Dynasty and Nordic shingles come in high definition colors. We want to give people a wide color palette, a variety of colors across the color palette for them to put on their roof, and hopefully you have somebody with an eye like Chad, who can advise them on what's going to match their siding, what's going to match the other houses on the block. What's going to go with their brick or whatever their home is made of, and really down to the details of your trimming and your fascia. What is going to make your house look perfect? How that roof to compliment the entirety of the house so that it could really bring everything together.

Lauren White: No, I was just going to ask what role does the roof play in a home's overall curb appeal?

Chad Roland: That varies. What I was going to say, what Jack just talked about, yes, they come up with multiple colors. You've seen the browns, the blacks, the greens, the blues, the reds and all of that, but I'll leave it up to the homeowner. I treat RTM Roofing as we're not designers. Now, I know there's some people are that're out there, but I can barely dress myself. My wife lays my clothes out. I didn't know you were supposed to not wear plaids with stripes. So to me, when I said it was in the eye of the beholder, it is because from my standpoint, I'm more concerned about functionality, performance and installation because some houses we've been on, I'll give you a quick two minutes if you let me.

I had he was about a 92-year-old gentleman, this had been eight or nine years ago, and he wanted a blue shingle. I was like, "Sir, you sure you want a blue shingle? Do I need to speak with anybody else?" Because when you're dealing with older people, I want to make sure that their children or whoever else don't think we're trying to take advantage of them and things like that, and we don't. But my point was is that I came back, he said, "No, I'm the decision-maker." I said, "Yes, sir." We put the blue shingle on. I went out to pick up the check, the black shutters that I thought were black were royal blue, and they popped.

When I was saying that it's in the eye of the beholder, I leave it up to the homeowner, usually the wife. Usually the wife because like my wife has showed me, you get one crazy. You put these one little bit of earrings on, it pops your shoes and that's what colors do in shingles. You put a weathered wood on, or the Driftshake or the Cornerstone in Dynasty and it will pull out, or it'll come out of the roof or come out of your house. In my area, I'm not good at seeing that a lot of times, but I'm also the expert of telling them what they need. They may want a Ferrari, but I come down to what they need and if they want the Ferrari, they can get that too. Sorry, that was a lot of stuff in two minutes.
Jack Gottesman: No, I think that was really good. And idea really behind that, that roof compliments the rest of the house and where it all comes together as curb appeal is that when people are walking by, when they're standing on your curb and they're looking at your house, they're going to say, "Damn, that shingle looks good. I want to find the roofer who did that and hire him quickly."

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, exactly. That just goes to show, and that rolls into our next question of how the roof does play a significant role in a home's overall curb appeal. So if you have blue roof, maybe even brighter blue shutters, or whatever. So Jack, do you have anything else to add on how a roof plays into a whole home's curb appeal?

Jack Gottesman: Yeah. So really, I think when a homeowner is looking at their roof, they're going to look at both form and function. They want to make sure that that roof is going to protect them from the elements, that that roof is going to keep them and their family and their belongings, the people they care about, the things that they care about, it is going to keep them safe, it's going to keep them dry. And then on top of that, it's not just about functionality. You also want it to be something that is beautiful and it's something that is complimentary, like we mentioned earlier, to the other aesthetic features of the home. And a roof can at times be one of the largest parts of the home that you can see from the curb when you talk about curb appeal, so you want to make sure that you're picking the right style shingle, the right color shingle, and both in terms of form and function to make sure that it's going to look beautiful and act in a manner that's going to protect.

Chad Roland: Pretty good. And I agree with that. And then I still put it back to the roof overall, the curb appeal is one thing of course, but you have to have a complete home to have a curb appeal and without a roof, it's just four walls. It's not even a building. You can't get a mortgage on four walls, it has to have a roof. So when you take the whole complexity of the building, envelope as we call it, and you put all those different levels, anything newer will look good, right? Anything brand new looks good. The curb appeal comes to when you've still got that 1998 Nissan Maxima that you've never painted. It's still running, but it's faded. It's dull. So some would say, "Oh, that's not bad," but then you pop a new one on it, a new roof, buy a new car, buy the new Maxima and then all of a sudden, wow, there's curb appeal. And that's the way I sort of look at it.

Jack Gottesman: Yeah. The next thing you know, you're the envy of the neighborhood. Right? See how easy that was? Boom.

Chad Roland: If they would just maintenance their roof like they do their car, it'd be awesome.

Jack Gottesman: What do you mean by that, Chad? What do you mean maintenance their roof like they do their car? Because at first blush it wouldn't seem that cars and roofs are similar, so what do you mean by that?

Chad Roland: And they're not. The one's a depreciating asset and one appreciates your wealth, and that's your home. And so I guess too, let's say before I skip or squirrel, I squirrel easily, sorry y'all, but kick me back on that a little bit. I'm usually not used to getting interviewed. I'm normally doing the interview. What was the one part of that real quick?

Jack Gottesman: You mentioned the car, so it's interesting and I'm prompting you on this because we spoke about it last week. How are a roof and a car similar? Because at first blush, it wouldn't seem that they are.

Chad Roland: Well, put it this way. You maintenance everything in your life, but most people never maintenance their roof. Everything requires maintenance. Here in Nashville, come by Saturday we're going to be in the low forties. Well, it's 85 today. That's a 40 degree swing. Things move. So what I'm getting at is just because it's a 20-year roof, 30-year roof, 50-year roof or whatever they call them, it doesn't mean you've got 100,000 mile warranty on your car, but unless you change the oil, rotate your tires, do basic maintenance, it's not going to function properly. And it's the same with your roof, you just never look up until it's dripping on you. So to relate it to the car is you'll put four new tires on it for $1,200, but each tire's $300. Well, that's not quite a neoprene pipe boot, but it's close.

And you'll complain about a $300 charge for a neoprene pipe boot that can crack and then leak down your pipes and leak in your house, but you'll buy those four tires in three seconds. I think it's more wants and needs. You want a lot, but what do you need? And so if they put the same respect into the maintenance of their roof as they do their car, they would get the longevity out of the roof a lot more than a lot of people are when they haven't had it changed or haven't had it even looked at in five years, seven years, ever. And that's like driving your car at 100,000 miles and go and get an oil change and it's, I don't know, a $10,000 bill. You're like, "What?" Oh yeah. There's a timing belt now, there's this, there's brakes. You haven't done any maintenance.

So again, it's a marketing thing from the roofing industry, like when I do my radio show Renovation Nation, I'm always talking about we do complimentary inspections. They're not free. I hate the word free and fair, and I was talking to you, Jack, about that. Two worst words in English language. Free, people will take free stuff, complain about it and ask for more because there's no value to them. And fair, nothing's fair. Fair is an evil word. Fair is only fair if it's good for one side. It's like a seesaw. If I want to be on the bottom, is that fair? If I want to be on top, is that fair? It's only fair to one side.

Jack Gottesman: Sure. I tell my kids about that.

Chad Roland: It's a win-win, is the way I look at it. So to go back to it, if people paid a little more attention to their roof and home in general, I'll give you a prime example. You change your oil in your car on average every 3,000 to 5,000 miles. Well, you should touch up your caulking every three to five years because you can have 30-year caulking, it'll be here in 30 years, but your window moved. And you want to walk around your house looking at the caulking around your windows, if that's rough, imagine what it looks like on your roof, that takes the brunt of the weather 24/7, 365. Neoprene pipe boots, five to 10 years on average. They say 10, I've seen them break at five. Well, your tires on your car is 50 to 100,000 miles. You got to do maintenance. So I guess that's where I was going with a little bit on the car. Sorry, I'm long-winded sometimes. Hope it's a long podcast. Anyway.

Lauren White: This is great. No, that's all really valuable information and stuff that people don't think about all the time. So back to some roofing materials, what are some of the most popular IKO roofing materials and styles that you've seen that can instantly elevate a Holmes' curb appeal?

Chad Roland: You want that Jack or you want me to take it?

Jack Gottesman: Why don't you take it and then I'll go ahead afterwards?

Chad Roland: Okay. My preference is the IKO Dynasty, and there's a lot of reasons for that. The number one, like you said, it's high definition, it's got more granular drops. It's a performance architectural. Number one, looks got to be there, but the functionality has to be the prime deal. If it's a purple roof, that's fine, as long as it's doing its job and repelling the water and staying on your roof. Then you can also go up to the Nordic if you want to get into class four, and it's a beautiful shingle too. But then what I call the Ferraris, your Crowne Slate and your Armourshake. Everybody wants a Ferrari, but do you need a Ferrari?

Again, that's when we were talking about designing and all of that and colors at the very beginning, some of my first questions are, "What don't you like about your roof and what do you like?" And they'll say, "Well, I've looked at Armourshake and want to get Armourshake." I'm like, "Okay. Well, you've got a 15 square roof. The cost, it's like buying a Ferrari. You want a Ferrari, but wait a minute, do you need a Ferrari? What are you going to do? Are you going to be driving around the racetrack or are you going to be off mudding?" So it goes back down to the functionality and the IKO Dynasty is by far the best shingle. It's on my roof.

Jack Gottesman: There's no better endorsement than that, Chad, and that is exactly our Dynasty shingles. We put performance at the heart of everything that we do at IKO, and so nothing pleases the ears more than to hear that our performance shingles are doing their job and performing. And we want to then take that to the next step. So no matter what it is that you're going to buy for us, if it's in our performance collection, which is the Dynasty and the Nordic that Chad described there, we want to make sure that they have all sorts of attributes that homeowners are going to associate with performance. That helps with curb appeal too. We want to make sure that they're impact resistant. The dynasty shingle carries a class three impact resistance, the Nordic shingles has a polymer modified asphalt. It's got a class four impact resistance, that's the highest.

Crowne Slate, like you mentioned before, is a designer shingle that's got a 10-inch exposure on it. It's a beautiful Ferrari. Not every customer in the world is buying them, but the homes that do feature Crowne Slate, they will blow you away. And we want to make sure that those have performance features as well, so the Crowne Slate shingle also carries a class four impact rating, and the Armourshake as well. The Black and armor shade comes with a class four impact rating, the other three colors are a class three. So if it's the wind resistance, the Dynasty and Nordic punch above their weight with the wind resistance, with the wind limited warranty that they carry 130 miles an hour. We want to make sure that if it's colors, if it's wind, if it's impact, no matter what it is, that we are putting performance attributes and features into our shingle so that they can both look beautiful and perform functionally for the homeowner.

And for the roofer, I'll just add one last thing, because the homeowner is great, but hopefully the homeowner won't need to think about buying a new roof again for a long time. It's the roofer like Chad. We want to make sure that RTM has competence in IKO that when they put on that roof, if it's a Ferrari or otherwise, that they have the competence that they're not going to need to come back to that job site to fix it later. We want to make sure that we are mitigating the chance of there being challenges with that roof, so that they're not coming back. They can put it on, get a positive review from that homeowner, let that homeowner competently recommend the RTM and hopefully the IKO shingles to their friends, to their neighbors, to their family, so that he can then go ahead and just do more and more and more. That's really what it needs for us to work together and thrive together.

Megan Ellsworth: I love that. And also, the roofer doesn't want to go back to that site, but also the homeowners don't want them coming back. It's probably not a big deal because RTM is an amazing company, but ideally you don't want to see them again.

Chad Roland: People have until next year. Even a brand new roof, you call me back next year to make sure everything's performing properly. And what I mean by that is I tell people we offer a five-year labor warranty on our work. The reason we do that is because 10 or 20 or 30, that's all to me, just words. Because you'll know, even a layman that's never changed the roof, and I've ran into a lot of people from 20 years old to 70 years old that only changed one roof in their life when they were growing up and their parents did it because people move within 10, 15 years on average and roof lasts longer than that. Now, I'll just leave it there because I know y'all want to go about more [inaudible 00:16:04]. I'll go onto it, but hang on.

When we do a five-year labor, what I mean is even a layman when they're done can walk outside and look at your roof and you'll know if something's not right. Just even a layman can do that. Some shingles are shifted, something just doesn't look right. And after I call them frog killing rains, you give me a couple frog killing rains and you've not had any water entry, that's a good thing. I always say that's a great thing. Now, you give me four seasons in our market, in Nashville down here we get summer, spring, fall, winter, all of it combined, we're dropping 40 degrees in four days. And you give me a year and there's not been any issue and everything's still doing what it wants, by the year five, there are odds it could be a labor issue, it could be a manufacturer issue, but they are so minuscule it's not funny, in my opinion.

Megan Ellsworth: That's awesome. That's great, and that's why we love IKO. So do you have any advice for homeowners going about choosing the right roofing material and style for their specific home and their curb appeal preferences? Are there questions they should ask their contractor or a manufacturer?

Jack Gottesman: So I'll go first and then Chad, maybe you could pipe in afterwards. So one thing that we offer is our roof viewer tool, ROOFViewer, which essentially enables homeowners to have a look at what these shingles look like. It's AI. It'll replicate what shingles look like on a house, and you could even upload a picture of your own house to then try on the shingles to see what they'll look like. It's not perfect. We always recommend that you have a look at the shingles in real daylights, not just a sample board, but real shingles to really understand what the color is going to be.

And you could have a look on the IKO website as well to really understand what the shingle colors are going to look like, but we are in an age where homeowners are now able to do more research than ever and more prep work than ever to really educate themselves on that roofing process, and I think that it's fine. Chad, you tell me. What's it like when you have a homeowner that knows what questions to ask? I'm imagining that that makes the process easier and more enjoyable for you.

Chad Roland: Well, I love it, actually. The more questions you ask, the better you're going to understand. And when we start off, what questions should they ask? Well, part of my opinion, it's a double-edged sword, is the contractor me should go out there and ask you questions about first, what are you wanting? What's your issue? What are you looking for? And then based on your specific home, because they're all like fingerprints, give or take here or there, then we advise you.

"Here's the materials. You can look at Dynasty. You're in a high wind rating area, there's the Nordic, there's this." And then once I get you the information, you come back with questions. Now you've got information and you've studied it. Now you've got what I call educated questions, instead of just, "Hey, I'm wanting a reindeer on my roof too," whatever. But to me, that's what it's about. It's really up to the contractor to make sure the homeowner understands what they're buying.

Jack Gottesman: Because there are fewer surprises there also, right?

Chad Roland: Exactly. I make our homeowners, well at least my guys do too, before we put the new roof on, I make them walk around their house and look at all the imperfections in their home already because it's just like a new car. You'll notice the first scratch on the new car, you don't notice the second one. And they've been living there 5, 10, 15 years, they didn't know it automatically had waviness in it, and maybe it was a three tab and it really stuck out. And sometimes an architecture will hide that and sometimes it exacerbates it. But I can't tell you how many calls I've had, that's why I implemented this, of, 'Hey, something's not right on my roof." I'm like, "I'm going to come back out. Let's look. I've got pictures, it looks great."

And I get out there and I'm like, "Oh, no, no. Here's previously, there's the waviness in your deck and it's still there," but they'd never seen their house. They really haven't, because I can walk into a home and there'll be a bare wire sticking out of a wall. I mean electrical, just ready to shock you. It's been there for five years, they don't know about it because they're sensory adapted to it. I walk in, it's brand new to me. I spot all of the imperfections real quickly. So when a homeowner's going to ask, to bring it back around, what questions? First, they have to know what their house is and is there anything wrong with it? What can we do to it to correct that or not correct that? So things like that. I think I answered that right, I don't know.

Megan Ellsworth: Oh yeah. Heck yeah.

Lauren White: Definitely. So we have some information on Ask A Roofer about color trends and roofing. So what role do these color trends play in roofing choices and what's a good way for homeowners to stay updated and know what these color trends are or understand how the color of your roof affects the rest of your home and the look?

Chad Roland: Do you want that one first, or you want me?

Jack Gottesman: After you, Chad. Hit it.

Chad Roland: Okay. Well, a couple things. Like he talked about, their viewer and then there are other tools out there, if you just don't happen to use their viewer or not use their viewer, that you can do to see what your home will look like. Secondly, we're starting to implement a lot of things, but go to our website and look at homes we've done. Jack and I were actually talking the other day and I'm working on something, they've been working on something. I don't know, they'll release whatever they do when they do it, but some of the things I'm going to be doing or wanting to do is people's got red brick on their house and they're torn between Cornerstone and Glacier. They're just not for sure. I can take two shingles out, three shingles out and show them, they're still not for sure, so they want to see a house.

Well go by and see it in real life. You've got to see it in real life at one point. If not, here's you a home that we just did, call it a drone, call it pictures, call it whatever with red brick. Oh, you got white brick. Here's the same roof with the white brick and all the combinations. But when it comes to what color choices that the market's leading, I think that's where IKO's on top and has to get that feedback whatever way they mine it. I guess if a certain color's not selling, why? It's a beautiful color, but why is no one buying it? And if a color's really selling, what other variations can we do of that? Maybe they don't like the red speckles in it or whatever, purple speckles, whatever it is.

"I love a shingle, but if it didn't have that. I love all those other colors." So to me, that's where their innovation helps us out because there's nothing worse than, "I love that shingle, but it's," then I'm like, "Well, we've got to go over here now then because I've got nothing else in my lot." But it really goes down to the data mining and to me, what's selling? Well, this looks good. It's hard to mess up a roof, in my opinion. I've never had an unhappy customer when it came to color because I can't put it on, let you see it and take it off, put another one on. I can, but you can't get two for the price of the same one.

Whereas my wife says it's a half off sale, buy one, get the other at the same price. That's where I go to. I love what they've been doing with the Dynasty, of the variation and the pop and the high definition, as they call it. But I love their Cambridge too, and there's nothing wrong with their Cambridge. It's got a more monolithic tone to it because tastes vary. My wife loves variegated. Sometimes I like monolithic, and then I put that in the soup bowl of everybody out here and you get all kinds of answers.

Jack Gottesman: That's such a great answer, and yes, Cambridge remains a beautiful shingle. I was just with someone last week who said that they prefer it. The keyword that you used there that I love is data mining. And that's where the internet is such a great equalizer because in the past, what roofing manufacturers have always had was that at the end of the year, you can look at a list to see which colors sold where and what did best. But what we are working on now and I'll tease this project, this is the first time we're ever announcing it, so we're breaking news on Roofers Coffee Shop, is that we are getting ready to release a video for each and every color that we have. A real life drone video, 30 seconds for every color that we have across all of our lines. And when you put that online, then you're going to be able to see what comments people from different areas of North America are going to have about that to really compare and contrast and create a roofing community for homeowners across North America to be able to be inspired.

And I think that that's a really cool thing too, because I like to think that IKO is a company that offers a global network, but local support. So we are able to sit with Chad, talk to him in his language, his culture, make sure that we have shingles that are going to stand up to the four seasons weather in your market, Chad. But we also want to leverage the fact that we are a global player and let your customers really understand what people are thinking outside of Tennessee, outside of that area of the United States, and perhaps get inspired there. So we want to really bring it all together and I think that once we launch this project on YouTube later this year, it'll be one big step towards that.

Megan Ellsworth: Wow, that is really exciting. And I know for a fact Ask A Roofer wants to share that out as well, so all of our homeowners out there listening can see those videos because that's really exciting. So pivoting with our question here, how can homeowners incorporate sustainability as that is becoming very popular, as it should, and energy efficient roofing options to enhance curb appeal so they can also save on energy?

Chad Roland: You're not going to like my answer. The reason I say that-

Megan Ellsworth: Hit me, Chad.

Chad Roland: ...I'll take this one first. The reason I say this, I understand exactly what you're talking about. I actually have my master's in agricultural sciences. But sustainability is very, very important, thereno doubt about it, because anything unsustainable, well, that's the definition of the word. It's just not going to be here. But I always say I've always seen the cool colors and the energy efficient, this and that, but that goes back to every home too. You got multiple, it's a building envelope. It's not just a roofing system. A roofing system is part of the building envelope, and that's insulation in the walls and the house, the ACs. It's everything calibrated because it's like an engineering masterpiece when you break it, and every home, by the way, is different.

But the one thing I always say, because people are like, "Well, is the dark colors hotter? Is the lighter cutters lighter?" And I'm like, "Well, this is all I can say from my experience. If you blindfold me in the middle of August here in Nashville and put me on a roof and I take my glove off and stick it on it, I can't tell you what color it is." The reason I say that, because it's the asphalt. This is my personal opinion. I'm not an engineer, none of that stuff, at least not today. It's the asphalt that the radiant energy heats up. There's where your heat store. The granules aren't hot, it's the asphalt or the filler and the matting and all of that. And there may be something out there, but any attic I've ever been into, I don't care, it's 110 to 140 degrees. Now, you put a white shingle on there or a cool shingle, is it going to cool at five degrees? I've never seen that. I'm not saying it doesn't happen somewhere.

So when it comes to efficiency, I think the roof is the last part of that. And the reason I say that, because if you're getting heat into a bonus room, that upstairs bonus rooms that people have, that it's got vaulted ceilings and this and that, and you're properly ventilated... and by the way, in my opinion, ventilation on a roof is not meant to cool your house, it's meant to cool the roof deck and cool the shingle to prevent blistering... if you've got a temperature problem, you most likely have an insulation problem. Now, you could have a ventilation problem too because I've seen that where they didn't cut out for the ridge vents or even put ridge vents on and the heat rises when air moves, but the heat made it all the way down through the insulation and rained condensation water out of their air conditioner return.

That blew it out of the ceiling. Why was that? Well, it was because the hot air couldn't get out and stay moving. So when it comes to sustainability, I think you start with the insulation in your home. If that's right, then you're only complimenting it with the roof of whatever these cooler colors and everything else that's out in the market, which is great. I love it, but just by doing that alone, it's not going to be a game changer in my opinion. At least I haven't seen it in my market. Now, if it is, I'm open to it and more power to it. But again, it's just between 130 and 128, that's like between anything over 100 miles an hour, you've got enough problems.

Megan Ellsworth: It's hot either way. It's really freaking hot.

Jack Gottesman: I totally agree with Chad that utilizing a full roof system, getting that insulation, getting those vents right is a vital part of roofing. In fact, when we created our Blueprint for Roofing YouTube series, which is our most popular series on YouTube, it said A to Z, soup to nuts installation instruction video series for how to install a roof and we included the piece on venting. And we don't make vents, we don't sell vents, but we did that because of the importance of doing that system properly. And we showed how to install three different types of vents, and insulation also extremely important. So yes, you need a well-ventilated attic, you need the insulation that is going to protect your home.

But the thing really, to get directly to your question, is that in some areas of the country, government is getting involved and it's not giving a choice. For example, California has laws that it has enacted about the types of shingles demanding cool shingles that can be installed, and it is up to us as a manufacturer that if we're going to play in that market, that we need to have shingles that can comply with that and also to be forward-thinking. To think long-term and think about the fact that if it's California today, who is it going to be tomorrow? So we want to make sure that we have shingles that can comply with these laws, should they exist.

Chad Roland: And here's part of your sustainability as well. I can't tell you how many homes I've been on that'll have some 750 box vents, then another section of the home that there's not a firewall, it's not a condominium or townhouses, then it has ridge vents. Then you go over on the backside, and I'm not going to say the I guess contractor other than roofing then decided to put a solar powered bin on it because they said it was too hot in the attic. So now you just take a straw and punch three holes in it and try to drink something, and that leads you to without having intake. A lot of these older homes around here in the fifties, there are no eaves, so how so you get air in?

The older homes pre-air conditioning were meant to vent and cool themselves by the way the houses were built. Well, nowadays, I sometimes say even with ridge vents and box vents and turbines, you can't get hot air out of these suckers without even blowing it out of them because some of these architects out there, no offense, they're great guys and ladies, but I think they get a bet together to see how many peaks they can put on a house. And so you got to have intake with a proper outtake, and there's some variation in that. But, "Oh, I need 15 more vents," no, you don't. You're just moving hot air faster. It's the same temperature.

Jack Gottesman: Practicality will just come and snack in the face eventually, right?

Chad Roland: Yeah. So if you've got enough ridge line and put a ridge vent on it, I love the physics of it. It's the water molecules that draw the air out. It's not the hot air rising, it's the water molecules because you're breathing, you're washing, you're showering. That goes through your whole home, and that's why I hate putting, I know it's codes, putting two layers of shingles on a home. To me, that's insane because you just depleted the life of the top shingle by half because you smothered it, and then you get it hot and then it blisters. But there are codes for two layers, I get it. But back then when they really invented, in my opinion, that was when they had 2X6 true oak, sawmill-cut rafters that could hold two layers of shingles without warping and bowing and delaminating. So anyway, I skipped. I'm sorry, I squirreled.

Lauren White: No, that's great. I think you made a really interesting point too. There's the whole roof system that works together to make sure that you stay warm and dry and protected, but it's the whole house system too that has to work together.

Jack Gottesman: Absolutely. It's vital.

Lauren White: And before I got into roofing, I didn't realize all of the parts of the system of a roof, let alone a house.

Chad Roland: It's amazing, the caulking around the people's windows. When I walk around getting our pictures, we document everything and I'm always looking at the windows, like I was talking about the caulk. I don't use 30-year caulk because they did own that window and it's still there, but your windows now moved and you've got a gap I can put my knife all the way through. It's more complicated than people think, but it's not when you've got somebody that can come out and explain it to you, and at least understand what's going on and see how you can mitigate it and get it back in balance.

Lauren White: Right, absolutely. In your experiences in the industry, what are some mistakes or maybe issues or design choices that you've seen that can decrease curb appeal in a home?

Chad Roland: Okay, I'll take that. I'll run that for a minute. One thing that's not really taken away curb appeal, but actually there's an answer to it, is three tabs. Everybody knows traditional three tab, it used to be the 20 year, now it's 25 year. There's not much cost difference between a three tab and Cambridge, a three tab and Dynasty, but if you want that traditional colonial, older style flat look, well then, let's step you up to the floor and get Crowne Slate because to me, to save $500 to not do an architectural and maybe you spend another $1,500 to get the crown slate or whatever that number may be, it's well worth it to get the same improvement.

In other words, I don't want to go buy a Nissan Sentra sports version. I would soon have a Lexus RX 350 or whatever Super Sport or whatever they are. So when it comes to curb appeal, it's having an old roof that's never been maintenance and nothing else, your gutters, your siding, your soffit, your fascia, your corners are dripping. There's a lot of things other than the roof that will break that curb appeal down. You have a brand new roof, then look at the rest of the house. The roof looks great, but the house is about to fall apart.

Megan Ellsworth: Jack, do you have anything to add?

Jack Gottesman: Yeah. I would add that people shouldn't discount the role that curb appeal plays into the resale value of the home as well. And Chad, what you were saying really made me think of that too. First of all, sometimes insurance is going to play a role in that, but I'm not even going to touch that one today. I'll just say really just in terms of curb appeal, how the home looks. Forget even how the roof functions, just how the home looks. If you're looking to move and you're looking to sell your house and you put that investment in to get a new roof, it is remarkable sometimes the amount of resale value on your home that that could turn it to.

Chad Roland: Especially if you do it pre-appraisal.

Jack Gottesman: Big time.

Chad Roland: In Nashville, it's exploding. I've worked with over 300 or 400 or 500 realtors and I won't get on the insurance thing either. That's a whole series. But I found the three top things that are usually negotiated on a home. Number one, the foundation. That's a given. If you don't have a good foundation, you can't build anything. The second is the AC and the third is the roof. Well, I grew up without one of them, I didn't grow up without the other of those last two. I grew up without an AC for a while, but I never grew up without a roof. And I found that the realtor and the homeowner, if they get preemptive if the roof is old, if it does need replacing, all that good stuff, they will actually make money on it. In other words, they will buy a $20,000 roof because that's what the market is, that's what it's supposed to be on that house, but it'll improve the value $30, $40. It varies.

Jack Gottesman: Exactly.

Chad Roland: I've never heard anybody losing money by updating the roof before they sold it.

Megan Ellsworth: No, that is so true. I've had actually a friend that sold her house and she had new roof, new landscaping and she sold it for double what she bought it within two years. So it wasn't a long period of time that it had to just gain, so really-

Jack Gottesman: Curb appeal. It's the real deal.

Chad Roland: It saves you time for, "Well, we need 30,000 knocked off. We need this knocked off." There's no arguments other than the penny ante stuff. "Oh, the light switch doesn't work." Well, that's easy. Knock $50 off, get a guy out there, $100, whatever. But no, the roof is important. It really is.

Megan Ellsworth: So do you two have some memorable before and after transformations where roofing upgrades made a big difference in a customer's curb appeal?

Chad Roland: I actually prepared and can show you something. If I hit my share button, I'm assuming it shows you. So if I go to screen and I go here, I'm assuming you can see it on the screen, right? Can you see what I've shared? Oh, hang on. Right here. Right there. Can you see that?

Megan Ellsworth: Yes.

Chad Roland: There it is. Is it still loaded? Let me know when you see. You got it?

Megan Ellsworth: Yep.

Chad Roland: This was a house, this is a gentleman, Mr. Ross, in Brentwood. And they were from California and bought it just basically sight unseen, pretty much like everybody does out here, and it's a huge house. I was trying to find some good pictures, but this is the best. This is when I first got there. There it is. It's got a weatherwood-ish shingle on it and all this stuff. Well, we've been talking about the roofing, let me see if I can go back correctly here, you also have to remember the other accessories that go about your curb appeal, the flashing detail.

Now, I'm not always the biggest about copper, but in this case it really worked and they ended up skimming all this. But that's a Glacier shingle, as you can see right there. But that's beautiful, but watch this. Look at that now with dark bronze gutters. And I don't have a better picture of the whole thing, but the Glacier going from this to that, and they also re-skimmed, the [inaudible 00:38:50] and dark bronze gutter, and we put dark bronze coping up top there.

Jack Gottesman: It's a world of a difference.

Chad Roland: It's a $1 billion home. It's definitely a seven digit home, but it increased six more digits, big time. Actually, a lot of six digits, what he did to it just from the outside, starting with the roof down. Here's your other thing, it's a good thing to know for all your listeners out there. And again, thank you for having me on today, and Jack, thank you for the invite as well. Now I'm starting to squirrel here because I got this bright light on me and stuff. If you're going to do renovations on your home, start with the roof. If the roof's fine, great. Because I can't tell you how many people just start painting and doing stuff and then all of a sudden, the roof is 12, 15 years old. It's got nail pops, it's got bad pipe boots, and as soon as they spend thousands, it leaks. I always start from the top down. That's any advice I would give anybody to think about renovating anything on their home because you're going to have to do it again. Why have to paint that ceiling again? That's money. So anyhow.

Lauren White: The transformation is amazing.

Chad Roland: Oh yeah, I'll go back now. I can delete out of this now. I just wanted to show you that because that was a good question.

Jack Gottesman: And it gets people excited too. I think that's the other thing. To directly answer your question, we have a bunch of that we do that on our Facebook page all the time. And Chad, I hope that you'll tag us on Facebook, tag IKO and any roofers out there either tag IKO or use #IKOroofproud so that we can share your pieces. But there is also the emotional aspect of all of this as well. When you're sitting with someone and they're about to spend a ton of money on this home improvement project, it gets them excited because that's a scary thing to spend all that money. But then when you show them some of the before and afters that they can see that, "My home is the most valuable asset that I have. It's the biggest investment that I have. This improvement work that I'm going to do on it now, oh my goodness, it can have that big of a difference?" It's inspiring. It gets people excited about it. It's great.

Chad Roland: 100%.

Lauren White: That's fun, and it's fun to see those transformations online and on social media, and like you said, get people excited about their roofs. Is there anything else you think homeowners should know about curb appeal and their roofs?

Chad Roland: Trust your gut. Trust your gut. That's what I would say, is that if it doesn't look right, you see it right now and you want it different, change it. Your gut usually doesn't lead you wrong that I've found out.

Jack Gottesman: Find an expert like Chad. That would be my advice. No, I mean it. Seriously, call RTM Roofing. Find someone who's a roof pro in your neighborhood to come out and talk to them because if they do this day in and day out and it's the first time that you're ever doing this, Chad, let me ask you a question. How often are your homeowner customers, is it the first time they're going through an experience like this of getting a new roof?

Chad Roland: A lot. I would say if I was putting percentage on it, 60, 70%.

Jack Gottesman: 60, 70%. So if that's you, and likely it is, find someone who really is an expert. Find someone who does this day in and day out. Find someone who's been in business for a while that is going to be reputable. We don't anticipate any problems, but if there's ever something that happens, you want someone who is reputable, you want someone who's going to pick up the phone. You want someone who's accountable. And I'm just so happy that Chad, now you and I. You thanked me for inviting you on a minute ago, I hesitated to reply because you're in trouble. This is going to be the first of many opportunities that I'm going to nail you with that I'm going to ask you to do together with me because-

Chad Roland: I already got some stuff in your house or your apartment or your condo, wherever you're at. I already got stuff in the closet. We about to be roommates.

Jack Gottesman: That's great. I love it.

Chad Roland: You have no idea what can of worms you opened up.

Jack Gottesman: It's amazing. And there's no better host of Roofers Coffee Shop, so thank you.

Chad Roland: Oh yeah, definitely. This is awesome.

Megan Ellsworth: Yay. Well, lastly, Jack, for all those homeowners out there that are listening and have fallen in love with IKO and are looking for an IKO certified contractor, where can they find those people?

Jack Gottesman: We encourage people to find a contractor right there on our site, iko.com. It'll take you to our North America shingles site. The first thing that's going to pop up is going to be a question of are you a homeowner looking for a roofer? If you're in Nashville, pump in your zip code and RTM is going to come up right there at the top of the list. Find them, get a quote online. It's a program we have called Roof Pro Works that goes across North America that is going to help our roof pros get leads and help homeowners find IKO roof pros wherever they are.

Megan Ellsworth: That's amazing. Well, gentlemen, thank you both so much for chatting with us. I know I learned a lot. I loved seeing the before and after. This has been absolutely fantastic.

Lauren White: Yes, thank you. Very informative.

Chad Roland: Can I say one last thing?

Megan Ellsworth: Yes.

Chad Roland: The reason I'm an IKO fan, because shingles are like cars. There's Ford, Chevy, Dodge. They're all great cars, they all get 200,000 miles. You'll just ride a lot easier along the way in the IKO car, I call it. But here's the kick. When there's an issue, it's not every day. There's always a when. When your house will leak, it will one day, it just will, all I got to do is call my rep, which is Tate, and his next available moment, he's out there looking because these things are made with machines. Machines, sometimes drop rate is a little different, but I've never seen the response that I've seen like I've seen from IKO whenever there is issue. There's been very few, but when they were, it was resolved, solved and done.

When you said earlier if you don't know what you're doing, get on and search, find somebody that's going to give you a contract. Find somebody that's going to write down everything they're doing and say what they're responsible for, what you're responsible for, because that's huge. That's really huge. When you get that little handwritten paper, "It'll be $39.99," and hand it to you, the products are all great, but it's how many times when I do have an issue do I have to get ahold of this person for them to come out and help me? And that's what you're really paying for, and then the products back it up after that. So there you go. But I love IKO.

Megan Ellsworth: Yay.

Jack Gottesman: That's awesome, Chad. Thank you very much. And we pride ourselves on getting good, responsible reps really throughout the country, and that's our job. When we say IKO loves you back, that starts with having good performance products that are going to do what they're designed to do, which is work more, and to have a sales rep that's going to be there to help you no matter what you need, so that's wonderful. Thank you really for all the kind words that you have said throughout this podcast, and we will continue to push ourselves to live up to the highest expectations in the world, which are yours, all of ours.

Chad Roland: True.

Megan Ellsworth: Love it. Well, again, thank you both so much for chatting with Lauren and I today. This has been the Ask A Roofer podcast. For all of those listening right now, go check out the IKO directory on Ask A Roofer and on Roofers Coffee Shop, and you can find out more about RTM Roofing on the IKO website and on their directory. So go check it out and we'll be seeing you next time on the Ask A Roofer podcast.