By Emma Peterson. 

AskARoofer Minisodes put decades of experience into 10-minute episodes perfect for home and building owners. 

Looking to learn more about your roof? A great place to start is the AskARoofer (AAR) Minisode series! This series releases new episodes twice a month and makes it easy for home and building owners to get the information they need about their roof. Each episode is 10 minutes or less and features experts from our RoofersCoffeeShop® R-club program who help people like you with their roofs every day, all day. Keep reading to hear about the experts we’ve featured in our recent episodes! 

Al Torrella of Elite Roofing 

Al Torrella is the founder of Elite Roofing and has over three decades of experience in the roofing industry. Now 20 years old, Elite Roofing is still family owned and operated and has built a reputation as the one-stop shop for all roofing and exterior needs in Hudson County, New Jersey. For his recent AskARoofer Minisode, Al shared thoughts on how to make your roof into livable, enjoyable space with a patio. From design to materials and construction methods, Al’s insights are invaluable. 

Travis Jones from Smart Roof and Home Performance 

Based in the Dallas and Fort Worth, Texas area, Smart Roof and Home Performance’s mission is to help homeowners “live smarter.” Founded by Travis Jones, their offerings include everything from solar to best-in-class FORTIFIED™ roof systems. When he visited us for an episode of the AskARoofer Minisodes, he shared what homeowners need to know about contractor licenses and certifications. This episode is a must-listen if you are looking to hire a contractor but aren’t quite sure what qualifications to be looking for! 

Campany Roofing’s Kyle Nurminen 

Kyle Nurminen is not only the current manager of South Floridian Campany Roofing, but a seasoned roofing veteran with over two decades of experience. In his current position, he works with everything from condominium and homeowner's associations to home builders and commercial property managers to make sure that their residents are protected by high-quality, secure roofs.  

He actually stopped by for two episodes recently, “What are the Downsides of Shortcuts?” and “Common Mistakes Made With Commercial Roof Investments.” These episodes are all about helping home and building owners navigating a reroofing project. Overall, this is a great resource for any building owners who are looking for tips on differentiating quality workmanship and potential red flags that may lead to costly repairs down the road. 

Start learning more about your roof today! The AskARoofer Minisodes are available on AskARoofer, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and any other streaming service you use for podcasts.

Looking at their clay tile roof, this homeowner had some questions.

When Linda, a homeowner in Florida, looked at their roof, they noticed that the first row of the tiling looked different. This is what they asked:

Is this normal to have the first row of clay flat tiles slanted down? How is this fixed?

One of the AAR resident experts, Kyle Nurminen with Campany Roofing, responded to Linda's question, saying: 

It sounds like your tile roof system is missing a detail we refer to in the industry as “eave closure” or “bird stop." This may not be and absolutely necessary detail, but it was created for several purposes.

The first of which may be the most obvious to you — aesthetics. The eave closure is used to lift the base of the bottom row of tile so they are at the same pitch/slope/angle as the tiles overlapping them upslope. When omitted, you are left with that “slanted down” look you have mentioned.

Another purpose – as denoted by the term “bird stop” — is particularly for barrel tiles, and that is to keep birds and other rodents from accessing the free space beneath your barrel tiles and potentially intruding the interior space.

A third purpose would be to allow for drainage. As your tile is ultimately present to protect the underlying waterproof membrane from the elements, the tiles themselves are not designed to be 100% waterproof. Therefore, while it is common to get some water penetration between tiles, there are intentional holes (“weep holes”) put into the eave closure that are designed to allow water to exit the roof at the base of the slope.

The most obvious reason one may choose to omit this detail is cost. And contractors may argue this cost-savings measure as justifiable for customers who have no preference for the aesthetics either way, or who may understand that debris and water may accumulate along the perimeter (one of the most vulnerable parts of the roof system) and weaken it just as much with a tile sitting on the surface as it can between the weep holes. 

So yes, it can be fixed; but unfortunately, other than making sure to include this detail in your next reroof, the solution comes with risk of damage to the roof system that may result in reduction of current roof life expectancy. The amount of that damage and life reduction would be dependent upon the age of the current roof and underlayment, type of tile attachment and the expertise of the contractor performing the work. Whether tiles are adhered with mortar, foam or screws, removing them is going to put additional strain on the underlying layers of waterproofing material. What can be seen may be reinforced on the surface, but there is really no remedy for any damage that may occur beneath the surface – damage that may compromise the strength of attachment and performance/durability during high wind events (which is obviously crucial here in SE Florida). This also places additional wear of the tiles themselves – scrapes, cracks and chips that may compromise their strength and ability to protect against the elements as originally designed. 

If this is a newer installation, I would suggest reviewing the scope of work in your contract with the roofing contractor. If the eave closure is in there, I would recommend having the roofer either perform the repair (which could be quite costly to them, disruptive to you and compromise roof life as discussed), or request a refund for that aspect of the installation. Otherwise, if this is an older installation (perhaps something you recently purchased and roof life is beyond 10 years) I would suggest leaving it as it is and making sure you have the eave closure included through your next roof replacement should you prefer.

I hope you have found this information helpful, Linda! I would like to conclude with a professional recommendation for yourself and other readers: When it comes time for your next roofing project, please consider allowing a trusted advisor -whether roofing contractor or consultant – to perform a thorough review of the scopes of work proposed in all contracts you may be considering. This is eave closure detail is only one example of how pricing may indicate what you may or may not be getting in each option and it takes a seasoned professional to analyze those details for you, explain the pro’s and con’s of each and ultimately assist you in making the best decision possible for YOU and your own distinct and unique set of overall circumstances. 

Continue the conversation in our Forum! 

By Jesse Sanchez.

Discover how flat roofs combine sleek design and practicality while tackling unique challenges.

Take your understanding of flat roof systems to the next level with advice straight from the field! In this episode of the AskARoofer Podcast, roofing industry expert Kyle Nurminen from Campany Roofing shared valuable insights about the rising popularity and challenges of flat roofs in Southeast Florida. Hosted by Megan Ellsworth and Lauren White, this episode is packed with knowledge for anyone involved in property management, commercial real estate or associated with HOAs.

Flat roofs are increasingly favored for their practicality and sleek design, but they require a specialized approach to ensure long-term success. As Kyle explains, “Ground space is limited. So putting the units up on a roof is not only a way to save space on the ground, but it's also a way to secure your HVAC systems, chillers and so on.” He highlighted how flat roofs offer an efficient solution for large-span buildings like Amazon warehouses, where pitched roofs would be both impractical and costly. “Can you imagine if you put a pitch on one of those? It would look pretty silly,” Kyle added.

While the benefits of flat roofs are clear, they come with unique maintenance needs. One of the most significant concerns is the impact of foot traffic and equipment installations, which can lead to wear and tear over time. According to Kyle, HVAC units, grease stacks and lightning rods can all contribute to damage if not managed properly. He noted, “Maintaining that drainage, a positive drainage and a positive drainage is anything that flashes off within 48 hours. So if it’s still on the roof after that, in dry conditions and premium dry conditions, then it can constitute ponding water.” With regular maintenance and proactive care, flat roofs can deliver lasting performance, protecting both the property and its value while minimizing future repair costs.

Read the transcript or Listen to the podcast to learn more about navigating the complexities of flat roofs and setting your properties up for success!

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Kyle Nurminen of Campany. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to the AskARoofer Podcast, where all your roofing questions find their answers. Your hosts, Megan Ellsworth and Lauren White, peel back the layers of the roofing world to reveal the knowledge, tips and FAQs you've been curious about.

From shingles to skylights, metal to asphalt, we are here to demystify the system above your head. So get ready to ask, learn and explore the fascinating world of roofing one question at a time on the AskARoofer Podcast. Hello, everyone, my name is Megan Ellsworth.

Lauren White: And I'm Lauren White.

Megan Ellsworth: And you are listening to the AskARoofer Podcast. Today, we have our dear friend, Kyle Nurminen, with us again and he has a new company to tell us about.

So we're really excited to learn about his new company, Campany, as well as talk about COAs, HOAs, flat roofs, all sorts of stuff. So hi, Kyle, how are you?

Kyle Nurminen: Great, Megan. How are you? Good to see you ladies again.

Lauren White: You too.

Kyle Nurminen: Especially in a new outfit.

Megan Ellsworth: Hey, a new company shirt. Yeah. Just go ahead and tell us a little bit about you and your new company, and everything you've been doing.

Kyle Nurminen: Well, I have a general management position with Campany Roof Maintenance in West Palm Beach, Florida. This company does over $100 million a year in reroofing and have a firm maintenance program behind that. And that's been, you ladies know, that that's been my area of expertise, portfolio management, proactive maintenance and stuff like that.

I got away from that a little bit when I focused on coatings, and then I focused on metal roofs and been finding an avenue back. I was going independent there and independent sales, I was going to try to get into it a little bit and then the Lord led me to Campany. They sought me out and the timing was right, and they were looking for somebody to come in and take 20 years of experience in roof maintenance from seeing some of the best companies.

I've worked for some of the best in proactive maintenance, portfolio management and see what they're doing here. Been here not even two months yet, I'm just feeling out how things are going. And after the first of the year, things will start moving pretty quick, so we're really excited. We have a wonderful team here. They've been doing, just so you know, Campany does multi-residential, large commercial.

They're one of the few companies in Southeast Florida that still do their own lightweight concrete, coal tar pitch systems on a lot of these high-rises on the ocean where that's one of the best options, so they're really behind the radar. They're very well-entrenched in the architecture, and the engineers in the general contractor world.

So you don't really see them or hear from them very much, and wouldn't even know that they do as much as they do until you hop on board like I have. And it's been quite an eye-opener and it's been a real blessing.

Lauren White: So great, well, congrats again.

Kyle Nurminen: Thank you very much.

Lauren White: So today, we're talking about flat roof care, typically commercial roofs, but a lot of times with condos and HOAs, condo associations.

For those types of places, what makes a flat roof a popular choice? And especially for commercial properties, the HOAs and COAs?

Kyle Nurminen: Yeah. One that sells especially in the Southeast Florida is just architecture and aesthetics. That's just like the way the look of the building, the style of the building, that's part of it. But some of the bigger reasons are basically ground space is limited. So putting the units up on a roof is not only a way to save space on the ground, but it's also a way to secure your HVAC systems, chillers and so on and so forth.

So put them up on the roof where the copper can't be gripped out of them or anything like that, they're more secure space savers. Also, a lot of commercial roofing, these buildings need large spans. So you're spending so much in the steel structure or the concrete substrate to span a certain width to support a roof, the rafters would have to be so high and so that's a lot of material. So it's just to save the space on staying flat is the way these large-span buildings typically go.

Megan Ellsworth: Interesting.

Kyle Nurminen: These Amazon warehouses and so on and so forth, can you imagine if you put a pitch on one of those things, how much extra square footage that would be?

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, oh my God.

Kyle Nurminen: It'd look pretty silly, wouldn't it?

Megan Ellsworth: That would look hilarious.

Kyle Nurminen: Yeah, yeah.

Megan Ellsworth: Would you say that people... This is I'm throwing a random question at you.
Would you say people are leaning towards flat roofs for residential now for patio space, like more space, especially if they, say, live in the city?

Kyle Nurminen: I want to say unfortunately, yes.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, we know.

Kyle Nurminen: But it's opened up another sector of our industry, for sure.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: Another good thing, another thing that Campany, there's not a lot of people in the waterproofing space. There's two different terms for liquid applied and you're talking about roof coatings, like the silicones and the acrylics and stuff that we've discussed in the past for roof restoration. But the waterproofing are like multi-ply OXI systems that are completely waterproof.

And then you can put your fake grass, you can put your pavers over top of a full waterproof system. There are still some out there that are trying to put them on top of roof systems. Problem is they don't last as long, and then by time the roof system starts going, you have to take up all that extra material on top of it.
So there's multiple options, but it's getting more and more popular, especially in Southeast Florida overlooking the water, everybody wants to be on the roof.

Megan Ellsworth: Yep.

Kyle Nurminen: Any downtown city where there's good firework displays, everybody wants to be on the roof to see the fireworks.

So that's HOAs and condo associations as well as commercial.

Megan Ellsworth: Interesting.

Lauren White: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: So I like random questions. That wasn't so random. That was a good one.

Lauren White: So what are some common challenges that flat roofs and people living under flat roofs face in some of these condos and HOA commercial properties?

Kyle Nurminen: They're very susceptible obviously to foot traffic. You don't walk on slope roofs as much and most of the debris sheds off of them, there's not so many penetrations to reinforce. But when you're putting a lot of stuff on the roof, there's a lot more vendors and services to be had up there, from lightning rod assemblies to HVAC units in heat stacks, stuff like that.

Grease stacks that come out of restaurants, so if you have any kind of a restaurant on there and you have a roof vent over it, it tends to have the grease come on top of the roof as well. So that's foot traffic and equipment damage is what I'm trying to talk about. Heat stacks that can actually burn the surrounding material, anything that has chemicals on it.

Chemicals on the commercial side of things, there's certain types of roof membranes that work better in high chemical and acidic environments. And the biggest one of all of them really, and there's always a concern, is ponding water. When you don't have slope, you're not shedding water. So especially down in Southeast Florida, we get a lot of water, really fast it dumps down.

So maintaining that drainage, a positive drainage and a positive drainage is anything that flashes off within 48 hours. So if it's still on the roof after that, in dry conditions and premium dry conditions, then it can constitute ponding water. And not all membranes are warranted under ponding water. They're not assigned to withstand ponding water.

Some of them are, so you have to know what your substrates are, what your options are. Every situation is different, so those are all things you definitely need to take into consideration and HOAs need to know that. That's why we're having this discussion, because you have all this going on, it's out of sight, out of mind.

And on slope roofs, you really don't have much to worry about, but anywhere where you have slope running into a flat on your back porches. And a lot of these multi-residential facilities, homes and communities, they're out of sight, out of mind and they don't realize how much is actually sitting on that roof and damaging the roofs. It's all stuff they got to maintain and keep an eye on.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, sure. That's so true, especially if people are trying to make a livable, usable space out of it too, you never know.

Kyle Nurminen: Yeah, yeah. And a lot of things since I just wanted to add randomly, it's not so random though, it just came to mind. I didn't have a note on it, but knowing it's a challenge to know residents know enough about the roof to even know what you really need. The modified bitumen cap sheets, granulated cap sheets, the granules in the manufacturer's warranty are considered a maintenance item.

Okay. That's why the roof coatings come into play, because those granular surfaces typically do not live as long as the warranty. So it's the responsibility of the building owner to maintain and the community when they decide to go that route, you need to understand that. They need to know that, "Hey, about 10 years down the line, we're going to have to be paying for a coating."

It may be a less expensive option now, but it is a real durable option. So you put a silicone coating on a modified bitumen down here in Southeast Florida, it's a pretty solid system versus a single ply, but you have to catch it in time. It's like anything, if you don't keep your eyes on it and you forget about it, changes of boards and changes of priorities in the community, as board changes and property managers change, a lot gets left behind.

Lauren White: Absolutely.

Megan Ellsworth: Totally. Okay, so you touched on this a little bit, but why is regular maintenance so crucial for flat roofs?

And maybe what is that regular maintenance that needs to be done?

Kyle Nurminen: Yeah, a lot of the warranties don't... Flat roofs always have to be tied into something pretty much. Very rarely is it just the roof and nothing else that it's touching. It's not just going off the edges and going into a wall. It's tied into other walls up there, all types of equipment. There are all types of equipment, so different adhesives stick to different types of substrates.

So if you have a stucco wall or if you have a brick wall, or if you have stainless steel jack stands or brackets of any type or you have rusting lead pipes on these types of things, you require different sealants. And not all sealants are covered under a warranty either. That's why maintenance is required in a lot of the manufacturers' warranties.
Why people buy roof systems that don't realize this, it's really amazing how many people don't know. You can't buy a car and not put oil and not do the oil change. You're going to void your warranty. You don't just drive it for 100,000 miles and never change the oil. Same thing with your roof system. I know we beat this over the head in the industry over and over and over time.

But somebody's listening to this right now, it's never really even thought of in that way, so that's why it's important to have the conversation. But like I said, different types of membranes have different types of things covering their warranties. Also, if you made a modification to a space and they put in a restaurant or a vent stack on your TPO system that's not known.

They're not designed to hold up to grease in a chemical like a PVC or an Elvaloy, so that could be a problem, so you have to prepare for that. Even your modified bitumens can be chewed up pretty bad by grease. Silicone can help prevent all of that, but if the modified's already got the grease in it, the silicone's going to stick to it.

So all these things you got to... That's why I just said it too, about the changing of management, changing of boards, priorities change. People's different levels of experience come into communities all the time. I wouldn't want to be on one of those boards. It's always that's a lot of these things, the buck's getting passed, the buck's getting passed.

So if you have a maintenance program in a company like Campany who's been on it for the life of the roof through all those changes. We're constantly documenting for our insurance purposes as well as budgeting reasons, and educating the new leadership in that community all along the way.

Whenever you make a purchase, especially on that grand of a level, the price of the project alone is a majority of the cost. You really have to draw and consider the cost of proactive maintenance of the warranty as well.

Megan Ellsworth: Wow, interesting.

Kyle Nurminen: That's why it's important.

Megan Ellsworth: Really quick, another random question, what would you recommend? Maybe someone wants to start a restaurant and they're looking for a commercial space.

What should they look for in a roof that would withstand all the grease and all that stuff?

Kyle Nurminen: I'm a big fan of PVC in those situations. Most of all, it's very chemical-resistant, it holds up to ponding water. However, down here in Florida, even regular PVC, the chemical makeup has liquid plasticizers in it and the UV down here really chews them up. Now, if they're under grease and they stay under grease or they're underwater and they stay underwater, they can be fine and stay really well.

But when the rains wash that debris away and then it dries out, before more grease comes or anything like that, they tend to crack as the liquid plasticizers' base bleach out of membranes. So you can identify those when they're going bad, by the way they start to crack and eggshell. So that KEE Elvaloy like your fiber [inaudible 00:13:12] was telling me is over there in my Roofers Coffee Shop goody bag or my R-Club bag, is a solid plasticizer that's holding it together.

It's a solid chemical makeup, so those don't tend to lose millage down here in Florida, just fragment and thus, can be much longer roof life because of that. So if I have a restaurant, it's got a TPO roof on it and I've got a new roof and it's got a TPO on it, it's going to be an issue. Just like always, I'm 20 years in the industry in Florida and I'm always willing to give anybody a free assessment.

So that's the best thing is just get somebody up there that's going to tell you like it is candidly. And like I always say, because of my initials, but I keep it candid and tell you even if it's not something we do, a smaller job or a small restaurant, we might not be the most price competitive and I'm going to tell you that.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: And hopefully make some referrals and even still, nurture the relationship and help you compare scopes and make the best decision for you.

So when you're ready to move to Florida and open that pizza parlor down here, let me know.

Megan Ellsworth: Everyone, reach out to Kyle.

Lauren White: Okay. So earlier we were talking about coming up with a maintenance plan, that proactive maintenance, which for some might just feel like an extra step.

Something else to do, something else to budget for and that type of thing. But how can HOAs, COAs and even just building owners, how can that proactive maintenance help them save money long-term?

Kyle Nurminen: Well, you're catching damages beforehand for insurance purposes. That's why roofing, especially here in Florida, the insurance is so difficult and maintenance is a big part of that. I did mention documenting things for insurance claims. They could say, "This was like this before and you neglected the roof." And we're like, "Oh, no, we got photos right here. This wasn't like that and we have insurance for a reason."

Keeping the insurance rates down would be one of those reasons, because you can document and you can show the good condition that you're selling. I cannot speak that all providers will cut you a deal or give you some slack on your rate, on your premiums because you do have the maintenance program, but it is definitely going to prolong your roof life. It's going to minimize loss along the way as well.

Think about all the things that when you spring a leak on a high-rise condo, say it's 20 stories high and you got a foot of water on that thing and the drains got all clogged because you didn't maintain them. By the time they get the overflow stoppers, there's a foot of water on the roof. If there's a single-ply roof up there and a single hole in that membrane, it's all coming in the building and running all the way down every story.

So that's a lot of damage. And yeah, there's a lot of claims, it's a lot of hassle, it's a lot of money all the way around for the community and it's a lot of personal loss that insurance just doesn't replace it.

Lauren White: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: And they can't replace that time you lost either, when you weren't able to be in your home because of the mold and the drywall replacement and so on and so forth.

You still have the issues with high-rises with plumbing, but the roof is a main player in all facilities in that. I'm trying to think of some more reasons. Just nobody likes special assessments, let's just put that.

Lauren White: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: Nobody likes to hear when they buy into a, "I got into a HOA and my cost is this." And we're already paying anywhere from $600 a month expensively to $6,000 a month, depending on where you're living.

And now all of a sudden, we didn't proactively manage our roofs.

We were told we had 40 years on our roof or some salesmen or even citizens say you have 50 years on roof tile down here in Florida. And people are actually writing their budgets, and doing their projections and planning their reserves on a 50-year span. It's insanity, there's no such thing in Florida.

Lauren White: No.

Kyle Nurminen: And just like anywhere, up North, I've roofed up North in the snow and the ice and you never know what's going to get hung up and what's going to start wiggling loose. And once water gets under something and then it expands, it just exponentially increases the damages to the prop, to the roof system. And what you thought was a 20, 25-year roof system, only is starting to fail before 15 years.

And then at the 15-year mark, you find yourself having to replace and you have no money for it, so it's so important to stay on top of the current status of the roof. And once again, I can't emphasize more importantly the changes of property management, the changes of the board and those people that are making those decisions.
And if they're misinformed, they always love to point the finger to the previous manager or the previous board, but that doesn't help them where they're at right now without knowing the current status. So well, that's getting to advice at the end.

Lauren White: But that's good though.

Kyle Nurminen: You know what I mean? I always get ahead of myself. I live this stuff and breathe it, talk in circles all day.

Megan Ellsworth: I love it. Someone has to. Okay. So how do HOA and COA, condominium association's bylaws along with community financing capabilities, influence decisions and strategies for roof maintenance and repairs?

Basically, in a homeowner association, how do they influence the homeowner's decisions and strategies for roof maintenance?

Kyle Nurminen: Podcast on this, didn't we?

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, we did.

Kyle Nurminen: Right, the split, the joined roof systems?

Megan Ellsworth: Yep.

Lauren White: Yep, yep.

Kyle Nurminen: I also did another one. I did another one down here with an attorney and a restoration company, insurance agent and we all talked about enjoined roof systems.

Megan Ellsworth: Yes.

Kyle Nurminen: You live in a quad? Who lives in the quad? Who lives in the-

Lauren White: That's me.

Megan Ellsworth: Lauren does.

Kyle Nurminen: Lauren, I'm so sorry.

Lauren White: The roof's fine. The roof's solid.

Kyle Nurminen: For now, until your neighbor's got a... When your neighbor has a problem, you have a problem.

Lauren White: I know, I know.

Kyle Nurminen: And that's the thing. And that was a large part of that discussion, is even if you're looking into serving on a board or moving into an HOA of any kind where you're joined roof systems, those bylaws are huge in determining whether that's something you want to take on or not. Because if you have all these roofs out here in say townhomes, and they're all connected and you're responsible for your roofing.

Yeah. You might be able to chuck in a truck that can do it really cheap, but he's the only one that'll touch it because he's voiding the warranty to the left and to the right. He's got no legitimate warranty along that tie in, and overall, as a community, it's devaluing the community because it's starting to look splotchy and inconsistent.

People don't want to walk and go into a community that's all different colors and different materials on the roofs. They want them all cohesive, so those bylaws really play an important part in managing and how you do it. Because you could get stuck with, you're managing a roof system and you're being told you got a 20-year warranty.

But because of what your neighbors are doing, you start having problems right away or 10 years and by year 15, when you should be getting at least 25, your roof life's [inaudible 00:20:20]. Yeah, that's a pretty big mess. What was the other part of that? That was the bylaws. What was the other part of that question?

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, along with community financing capabilities.

Kyle Nurminen: Yeah, financing, I like that. Are you still planning in reserves or are you just looking for an assessment? Nobody's really planning for an assessment when it comes to a reroof. They're supposed to be planning the reserves. And the problem is things like COVID hit and costs, everything went up 30% to 50%. And people were like 10 years and almost 100% off on their projections.

So that really, really is going to affect every individual homeowner as to what the bottom line ends up being and what their options are going to be and what that's going to mean to the value of their property. Yeah, it's really important. So obviously, if you can do it, the ideal situation is recommended by any association attorney, specialist would be to have the entire community on the same page budgeting.

And part of your fees, your HOA fees are being allocated for that reserve for your reroofing and constantly updated. So you need a maintenance program that's updating you on the current status. A storm comes through a large community, you got 45 buildings and it really hit three or four of them only but the rest were untouched. You still have to plan for that.

You still have to adjust your plan for those buildings, and you actually have to adjust your overall, because everything was hit differently and people don't think about that as well. Just because it was built in a certain way, the newer buildings or the latest, the last ones being built could be the ones in the worst condition depending on the exposure and what it's been through storm wise over the years.

Lauren White: That's so true.

Megan Ellsworth: That's a good thing to keep in mind when looking to buy those types of homes too.

Kyle Nurminen: Absolutely.

Lauren White: So in addition to budgeting for that long-term maybe reroof that's going to happen, why is budgeting for roof maintenance planning important?

And maybe what advice do you have from the roofing side for property managers or HOA boards to help create those long-term budgets to factor in the maintenance and repairs before that reroof?

Kyle Nurminen: Yeah. I think a good, safe figure almost a decade ago, I think it was like 30% of the cost of the reroof from trying to consider putting into maintenance, but that's just like also you have prorated warranties. Is your warranty a lifetime warranty? Is it an NDL warranty?

As you start having the warranty that certain year it's up, that 15th year, it's not covering as much. And there's a reason for that because your costs are going to be rising. So planning for that 30%, like I said, it's just one of those things that can still fluctuate, but that's pretty much the rule to maintain.

But you're also, on top of that, having to budget for another reroof that 20 years later is going to be the 30% more. So yeah, it sounds expensive when you're thinking about it. It ends up being like 60% of the cost of today's reroof is what it's going to cost you 20 years from now, but the thing is you need to get to that 20 years.

If you're not maintaining or not paying attention to it, you could have to do that twice as fast and in half the time and not even have half the money saved. You might have saved some money and some minor money in maintenance, but you lost 10 years. So that's half of a community or half of a roofing project is lot less.

There's a lot more with the price increases as well. Inflation on top of it is a lot more than just that 30% blanket maintenance fee.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. That's a good thing to start with and then go up from there.

Kyle Nurminen: Yeah. We're currently searching a database right now and we've started looking at the first one to three years. So most of those roofs are still under a manufacturer's warranty or an installer's warranty. Sometimes your install warranty can be five years depending on the roof system and the company applying it, they'll go as far as 10 years.

So sometimes communities will, the 10 years are usually on metal roof systems don't really hold any type of a system warranty. But the five years, the three, especially if you're under a general contractor, if it's a whole community and a general contractor. That roofing contractor may be only obligated for one to two years to that general contractor and then they're gone.

So you need every community or building and COA, HOA, condo association or any commercial property owners need to be in tune with when their install warranty runs out and they really want to know who their manufacturer is. You'd be surprised how many people in communities have no idea who their manufacturer is, and if they even have a warranty on their roof system.

And they laugh and they think it's funny, but when you're doing proactive maintenance, it's one thing we didn't cover. You really need to know what systems you're dealing with and what warranty, what materials you're using on those. There's a certain skill set that comes with proactive maintenance, and that's knowing, first of all, what really constitutes a proactive or a degenerative issue.

Like something's breaking down prematurely or if it's naturally breaking down the way it should be or at the time it should be. Also, there's like 10 million companies always trying to come in Florida. Everybody's got a company for everything. It's not proven and your guys don't know how to... They're different, every product line's different.

Your guys might be used to one that's really heavy set, goes down really nice and smooth and just self-levels and makes really nice repairs. And you send them out this new cheap coating or whatever, you got a deal with a buddy that opened a coating company or something or they bring it down here to Florida that's not proven. It's just they can't even brush it.

It just runs all over the roof. It just looks nasty, and then it might've required some extra primers. And then also if it got really messy and then you continue having a leak there, if you had a warranty on it, the manufacturer's probably going to void it.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: So a lot of the manufacturers that got into their own custom, especially the modified bitumen-type systems and the single-plys even, they're having their own pump and their own coatings for their materials. And those are the only ones that they will back up their warranty on, if you apply it before their warranty exceeds. Now there's a flip side to that argument too.

Material manufacturers aren't typically in the coating business. So some of the better coatings are for roofers, made by roofers, originated by roofers and chemically made up by roofers for roofing and they can be more durable. So that's the thing is, "Hey, now you're under the coating, so is my manufacturer's warranty at this point even worth anything to be worried about, when I can put it on a fresh coating?"

But then coatings have failure substrates that aren't in their warranty, so that roof continues to degrade beneath it. And anybody doing proactive maintenance needs to know that this is going on. They need to know that, yeah, so you could have a storm and a piece of sheet metal could come off. A panel could come off an AC unit, cartwheel all the way down your roof and yeah, they patch it all up.

You get a roofer out there right away, patches it all up. They might heat weld it with a different TPO, with a different chemical makeup that doesn't really adhere, doesn't really last longer. Or they can even come with a really good coating that has a really good primer in it or urethane base, like an American WeatherStar base. APOC style, really they're involved with our club.

Everybody's got their strengths and weaknesses, and you can have a coating that could be better than a TPO patch. But the bottom line is that system already got saturated, the water's still in it, how much got in it? Now, most single-ply systems were designed over metal deck and breathing systems like ISO hardboard in there, but that can still fester.

And that foot traffic that we talked about earlier. You got people on your roof and sitting down toolboxes and damaging that substrate, and causing uneven surfaces that now pond water. And that TPO will start wicking that moisture in those areas where it wasn't designed to have standing water, so it takes that eye, that eye of saying, "Okay."

And that's why I tell anybody, "I'll put my boots on anybody's roof, but I'm not bidding anything until I do. So if you don't want to give me the opportunity to put my boots on your roof, I'm not bidding anything." I'm not your roofer because I'm not going to just tell you that this is the situation because I flew a drone over there, the condo or the community tell you this is what you need.

Even on slope roofing, there's a lot of it that comes with the skill set and walking on tiles to see what that power pressure washing with bleach has done to your concrete tile over the years and so on and so forth in your shingles. And the loss of granules and feel them and feel how gritty they are. That's the same thing with roof systems.

You have to know every single type of roof system to really do good, proactive maintenance. So if your roofing company doesn't do them all, how many communities have flat and sloped roofs? How many commercial buildings have flat and sloped roofs? And you want to maintain an entire asset, you have to have the skill set to actually identify these things properly.

And have the proper solutions and know your materials all the way across the board and what's in your market. And a lot of this is stick to what you know, but that's some things, some people grab one can of Goop and think it works for everything and just put it on everything. And putting concrete old-school bowl, everybody looks at the old roofers like the bowl and they're putting asphalt-based cement on TPO.

It's not meant to hold up to the chemicals or they're putting it on a metal stack or on a metal roof, and it's doing more to corrode the metal beneath it than it is to protect it.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: So all that comes in, go on and on with that.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: The examples.

Megan Ellsworth: There's so many facets to the maintenance of your roof, no matter the type of roof you have. Just to go into that a little bit more, this is our last question, might as well finish off with a bang.

What advice do you have to give newly established HOAs and COAs to create their own maintenance plan for the roofs in their HOA and COA?

Kyle Nurminen: Find out where that warranty is, find out who your manufacturer is and then find out what their proactive maintenance materials may be. Okay? Like I said, they may have certain materials that they'll only warranty under their warranty, that they want you to maintain that roof system with. Now that may cost you more, it may cost you less.

But it's going to cost you more in the long run if you use the wrong material and then you're voiding, what should have been warrantied isn't warranted. Because you voided it with a cheaper or a product that you didn't know, or you put a shingle roofer up there to fix a TPO roof and he doesn't know, doesn't understand what asphalt can do to that membrane. So look at your warranty.

Most manufacturers require biannual maintenance, especially here in Southeast Florida now and I would look up my permit and see what wind design. And down here, it's wind design and anywhere in the country anymore, we have tornadoes, so you want to know what's a wind? And that's the thing too, look at these tornado zones and all this stuff that comes with these hurricanes that move across the country in places that never had a hurricane.
It's the tornadoes. And you might not be in a high-wind velocity area, but to have somebody assessing your roof that has that background or comes from someplace like Southeast Florida, is really beneficial for you. So if you could search for somebody with that type of a background, there's consultants on LinkedIn.

You can see a multitude that I'm connected with who could come out and assess that. That have high-wind velocity experience and tell you what that negative design pressure means. And they could walk your roof system or your community and tell you what may or may not be the result of that right now with your roof system that you may think you have a 25-year roof.

But it's only 12 years old and five years left on it because it's all actually just sitting there right now, it's not even really connected the way it was designed to be, because of wind damage, you were unable to see.

Megan Ellsworth: Man.

Kyle Nurminen:Yeah. Look at your warranty and then look at your consultation on your initial assessment. Consider the background of the person who's doing it and their company experience. And not always just the company but an individual mostly. My big company just assessed a property for an investment portfolio owner that I service, and they had their sale all caught up.

They were having problems closing the deal and they said, "We're not going to close this, buy this property until the owner takes care of all these issues with the roof." And I said, "We don't think they would have that many problems. Get a second opinion." I drove all the way across the state on a Saturday and threw a ladder up, and it was the best roof they've ever put me on.

Megan Ellsworth: Wow.

Kyle Nurminen: They bought a lot of bad ones. Usually, that's why it's been such a good client of mine. They buy them and then they need to bring them up to par, then they have to recoup that cost on the deal. So I assess them and I let them know honestly where they're sitting, and what their options are and what's their best, their highest rate of return to maintain their quality asset.

But in this situation, it was the opposite. They badmouthed the roofing contractor and I said, "I got to tell you, maybe it's just the individual. I can't say it's the whole company, that company's reputable." It was just an inexperienced sales guy or I don't know, I can't speak for where the fault is, but that's an individual assessment.

That's an individual person trying to sell you a bill of goods and it's holding up your sale, just close the deal. We'll take care of the minor stuff that needs addressed when it's done. Don't let it hold up your deal. So yeah, individuals that come of all shapes and histories and backgrounds, so not just venture companies, but vet the individuals that are doing your assessments.

Megan Ellsworth: That's a really good point.

Lauren White: Yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: And reserve, they have reserve planning and they have reserve studies. And a lot of boards don't even know, the property management company might be handling the reserve or the roofing portion of that or vice versa. There might be somebody on the board at one time that had a relationship with the roofer, but that's where their assessment came from.

And that's where for the last 15 years, that's what the reserves had been standing on. One guy that didn't really know what he was talking about and now here you are, and you're in a pickle. So yeah, if you're coming into a new facility or you're taking over a new leadership or management or board position, find out the history of who did what. Get everything updated and refreshed.

Of course, if you're in Southeast Florida, if you have a portfolio over all of Florida, we can manage that from where we're at, but specifically in Southeast Florida. And like I said, I'll drive across the state for you on a large enough job to take a look at it and just tell you where to go from there.

Megan Ellsworth: That's amazing. Well, Kyle, this was great, great, great advice.

Lauren White: Wealth of knowledge again, yeah.

Kyle Nurminen: It's a lot. There's a lot more to it than people think, yeah.

Lauren White: Right, exactly.

Megan Ellsworth: So much to it. Everyone can find the directory for Campany on RoofersCoffeeshop.com and AskARoofor.com, to learn more and to get a hold of Kyle and all that will be linked in the show notes as well. Thank you so much.

Kyle Nurminen: Outstanding.

Lauren White: Thank you.

Kyle Nurminen: Love you guys. Thank you so much for the support.

Megan Ellsworth: Oh, of course. This has been so much fun. We love talking about HOAs, COAs, commercial properties, so stay tuned.

We have more episodes coming to you in the new year in 2025. This has been an absolute blast. Thanks for listening to the AskARoofer Podcast.

Lauren White: Thank you.

Kyle Nurminen: Merry Christmas, everyone.

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